Which is better, Cloverway's or Dic's treatment of the Dub?
(Please note, some of the longer replies were edited for length.)
I would submit to you that the CWI
dub is actually worse than the DiC dub. Note that I am not saying DiC's
dub was good, or even tolerable. What I'm saying is that this dub went
from a *sort of* watchable show (if your blood alcohol level is high
enough) to a piece of crap worthy of Pearl Forrester's attentions. It
readily apparent to anyone who's seen even 5 minutes of this dub that,
unlike a fine wine, Optimum Productions gets worse with age. The CWI
dub suffers interminably from one major problem, one that extends its
tentacles into every aspect of it. CWI simply doesn't care
about this dub. And any few changes for the better are not due to
a concern for the show, but sheer damn fool laziness. Let me elaborate.
Things better than DiC:
*Original music is kept in most spots. This is a huge improvement over
the DiC dub...but one that required absolutely *no* effort on the part
of CWI. And, some rather notable music *was* changed, nay
mutilated--need I mention the laughable, cheesy English lyrics they
slapped on Ai no Senshi and I Am Sailormoon?
*The translation is better. True, but in some places they made serious
errors. For example, they implied that *all* the outer scouts came back
from the future and not just Pluto. An even worse error was when Serena
was in the car with Amara and Michelle, on the way to the Tokyo Tower.
Amara called Serena Sailor Moon...way before the episode where they
found out each other's identities.
*Less edits. Yes, in some places this is a good thing, like for things
like "death" and such. However, any more "gritty" or "darkness" to the
dub is more from the innate subject matter of SMS and not CWI. I would
also submit that in a lot of places, they *should* have made edits, and
they didn't. The biggest example is with the Japanese text. I know I
wasn't the only amused viewer when Serena was expressing anxiety over
her French skills and "eigo" was splashed all over the screen. And I
certainly wasn't the only person wondering why Michelle was pulling a
"Single White Female" on Michiru (taking credit for her artwork), why
Darien was stealing "M. Chiba"'s notebook, or why Amara was wearing
"Tenoh Haruka"'s racing uniform. The absolute worst was when Michelle
was asking Amara why she gave away the goldfish she won, while Amara
was still shown holding said fish. Laziness. Pure and simple.
Things equal to DiC:
*Name changes. Americanization of given names, keeping of family names,
complete with rampant mispronunciation. Hotaru is the exception here,
but no one seems to be able to pronounce her name correctly (herself
and her father included). The villains for the most part kept their names,
but DiC did the same.
*"Kewlisms". Except in the CWI dub, the kewlisms have turned from such
Valleyisms as "hunkmeister" to more gritty, urban kewlisms like "what's
up girlfriend" and "stop trippin' Luna". Either way, all of it's lame.
*Serious personality changes. The outer scouts are a hell of a lot
meaner than the outer senshi. Amara and Michelle (aside from being
deeply closeted, but I'll get to that in a minute) seem to suffer from
low self-esteem which manifests itself in a *serious* superiority
complex. Haruka no longer quit racing because of her mission, but
because "she wasn't good enough". *pauses for a collective eye-roll*
Michiru is no longer the dignified, refined lady, but is a boy crazy
Things worse than DiC:
*Acting, acting, acting. Or should I say, the lack of it. Granted, no
one was nominating the DiC VAs for any Emmys, but CWI's VAs make them
look like seasoned thespians. Susan Ballantine's Serena sounds like the
Taco Bell dog in heat, and is at her worst when she tries to imitate
Terri Hawkes. If ever there was a question of drug use at Optimum Productions, it has got to
be applied to them casting her as Uranus. Her voice is way too feminine, and
possesses none of the sexy, cool and confident androgyny required
for the part. None of the tenderness when talking to Neptune. She
speaks in a dull monotone, with no emotion whatsoever. Ditto with Michelle's
VA, whose voice is too deep and sounds like she's being continually
drugged. Our distinguished, eons-old guardian of the gates of time was
kidnapped and replaced with a 13 year old mallrat. Every last one of
the existing characters' VAs got worse. The only improvement was Rini's,
who actually has some sliver of acting ability and is actually appropriate for the character.
*Consistency. Okay, we all know DiC wasn't winning any awards for
consistency (*that's* an understatement :P) but CWI is actually worse
here. Jupiter has joined the ranks of Mercury and Mars in the "Attack
Identity Crisis" club. Poor Lita has had the same attack ("Sparkling
Wide Pressure") be named Sparkling Wide Pressure, Jupiter Power (?!),
Jupiter Thunderbolts Smash, and any other lame thing I can't remember
offhand. Oh, and the henshins...the henshins. Sailor Venus must be
pretty damn special: she got her powerup a whole season before everyone
else did, and transformed with "Venus Crystal Power". The outers can't
decide whether they like "star power" or "planet power", so they just
alternate in every episode. Uranus, Neptune, and the Death Busters (oh,
the "Bureau of Bad Behavior") can't decide whether they're after the
"charms", "treasures", "pure hearts with special powers", or just plain
"pure hearts". As for the person who needs the "Purity Chalice" to save
the world, well, this poor person has had the worst kind of identity
crisis. First she was the "Chosen One". Then, she literally got three
different names in three consecutive episodes: the "Ambassador of
Good", the "Legendary Princess" and then, the "Sovereign". DiC was horrible in
this area, with them not deciding what they wanted to call the
ginzuishou, but they were never, ever even in their worst moment this
*One word: cousins. Granted, this isn't an area where we can compare
the two, but it's the crux of the reason why this dub sucks so badly in the
minds of so many fans (self included). It isn't just because it
completely mutilated the Relationship between Haruka and Michiru, but
because of their sloppiness of trying to cover it up and the bad voice
acting, they're actually inserting lesbian subtext where none existed
in the original. Because SMS revolves around Haruka and Michiru, the
cousins crap is infecting the entire show. They whack the viewers in
the head continuously with "cousins", they're actually making them look
*more* gay--and incestuous, to boot. How many subject lines entitled
"Kissin Cousins" have *you* seen on SM message boards and the
newsgroups? Although it pains me as a queer fan of the show, I do
concede that the Relationship could not have survived intact. But they
aren't just dubiously covering it up--they are outright ridiculing it.
In the lovers contest episode, one of the worst exercises in homophobia
I've seen on TV, Haruka and Michiru's reason for entering the contest
is now "as a joke", and the reason they quit is now "so they can step
aside for the *real* couples". CWI is not only making lesbian relationships
invisible, they are outright mocking them and saying they are not as
valid or meaningful as hetero ones. I think every SM fan, whether
straight bi or gay, should be outraged about that.
CWI took a bad dub and made it worse.
I know dub-complainers everywhere will get on my case about this, but I
can't really say anything bad about DiC OR Cloverway. Not that they don't
have their bad points, but my first experience with Sailormoon was the
dubbed version, and because of that I'm used to DiC's style of dubbing. Of
course, now I know more about the entire story, and it irritates me to know how
much was censored, changed, and cut out of the episodes, but the fact still
remains that DiC was the company who first brought Sailormoon to
America, and for that I can't complain.
Cloverway is better in their use of some of the original Japanese
things, like music and attack names, but the new voice actors they have really
bug me. Sailor Moon's dubbed voice has ALWAYS been rather irritating, but
this new voice just grates on my nerves! I unfortunately haven't gotten to
see any of the episodes with Rini yet (because I'm never home when the show
is on), but if her voice is any better than it was in the DiC version,
then it HAS to be good!
Anyway, that's about it! I guess I'd have to say it was a tie between
DiC and Cloverway...I'd rather have DiC's voice actors, but Cloverway is
doing at least a little better at keeping the episodes in their original form!
And by the way...I read the comment made by Xazy (I believe that was
the nickname), and I just wanted to say that "moon face," from what I know,
has nothing to do with the fact that Usagi is Sailor Moon. Usually, that
expression is used for someone who is VERY daydreamy and has their head
in the clouds, and I think you can agree with me when I say that Usagi is
definitely that! I just wanted to mention that, though...you might've
already known, but reading Xazy's response just gave me the need to
If there wasn't one thing I was looking more
forward to, it was the Dub of SMS. So I have watched
every episode except 2 (I was out-of-state). And my
opinions? Some things were done better in the DiC dub
then in the cloverway dub, and some things were done
in the cloverway dub better than the DiC dub.
So which do I like better? Well, let's divide
it up into segments, shall we? I'll be testing sound;
names; unnecessary changes, cuts, and flubs; and
necessary changes and cuts and how they were handled.
Let's start with the sound. The Voices were
horrid (Serena's, to be exact) and the music was
horrid (I still remember power of love... Ugh). At
least With Cloverway, they kept the music. BUT! The
voices are horrible (Again, Serena's is enough to
drive anyone up the wall), much worse than than DiC.
However, I think Cloverway did a better Job with the
sounds, leaving all the original music. Cloverway 1,
Next, name changes. The DiC names were OK.
Amy, Raye, and Mina were the best things they could of
picked (with their names originally being Ami, Rei,
and Minako), and Lita was OK. Serena and Rini were not
great names, but livable. The really only horrid one
was Negaverse, but Iím not getting into that, as that
reason is WAAAAAAAYYYYY outplayed. The transformation
names were OK, just "Make up" taken off, nothing
major. However, the attack names are stupid, and more
unnecessary changes. (Ex - Jupiter Thunder crash -
what was wrong with Supreme Thunder?) However,
Cloverway is being notorious for the names. Michelle
and Hotaru everyone was pleased with, but Amarah? And Trista? Where did
they come from? Name changes are usually made so the
names are easier for our ears and easier to understand
and remember. But how easy is Amarah? Or Trista? And
what about the Bureau of Bad Behavior? And what's with
all the transformation and attack names? Why do they
change from episode to episode?
It is very annoying. DiC wins here.
Cloverway 1, DiC 1.
Unnecessary changes? I'm not going to go too
far into this, but I will scratch the surface. Both
companies have made MANY unnecessary changes. DiC did
lots of small changes and cuts that weren't so bad.
However, larger cuts and changes were just plain dumb.
(Example of a VERY dumb cut and change - Day of
destiny. Two beautiful episodes combined into one
crappy one.) Flubs? Too many to count (Ex - When
Artemis is telling the girls the messages from central
control. What? Isn't Artemis Central Control?)
Cloverway so far hasn't made any serious mistakes, but
sooner or later, they will. Flubs? Again, too many to
count (Ex - Again, another Jun Jun example, Venus uses
Venus Crystal Power to transform.) I am more impressed
with Cloverway's dubbing job on unnecessary cuts than
DiC's. Cloverway 2, DiC 1.
Necessary Cuts - Oh god, Iím going to get
bashed here. In SM and SMR, there is not very much
material that could get sailor moon kicked off the
air. So DiC really didn't have a hard time in this
category. The only thing I can think of is all the
slapping and the language. So let's go to cloverway.
OK, Iíll address the thing that comes to mid first -
Cousins? Amarah and Michelle COUSINS? Argh. Well, this
WAS going to happen. I could think of much worse
things they could've been (sisters), but I could think
of better things they could've been (good friends) If
they were good friends, they might not have to cut out
all the stuff they did concerning their relationship
(Ex, them holding hands, touching each other, etc.
etc.). But I suppose cousins are OK. Next, the names.
They couldn't keep Messiah, or Holy Grail. I kind of
like purity chalice (even though ambassador of good is
horrid). So, in my opinion, since both sides did an OK
job changing what they had to, I give them each a
point. Cloverway 3, DiC 2.
So I guess I like Cloverway better. Or do I?
Oh don't get me wrong, there are many more things I
could get into here. But it's not worth any more of my
time, and none more of you readers. That really is a
stupid thing to say, "At least it wasn't as bad as
what DiC did". So why do we say it?
DiC had no compitition for Sailor Moon, so it
was always compared to the original. Of course the
original will be better than the dub! So it got the
reputation it was horrible, many people saying that
that had never even seen the original. So when the
cloverway eps come along, they had something to
compare the eps to, the DiC dub. Except everyone hates
the DiC dub. So Of course everyone is going to say the
Cloverway dub is much better. But why? They have no
The truth is, and Iíve actually been banned for saying
this from chat rooms before, is the fact I LIKE BOTH
DUBS! I like them both! In fact, I have a hard time
sleeping at night if I miss even a second of Sailor
Moon! Neither was worse than the other was. They were
both equally as bad. But just because something is bad
doesn't mean I hate it.
So there is the answer to your question. Which
do I like better? Neither. Even though above, I've
proven that I like Cloverway better, in reality,
neither is better.
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Last updated: July 19th, 2000