Rantings and Ravings
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A Question... (Page 7)

Which is better, Cloverway's or Dic's treatment of the Dub?

Your responses:
(Please note, some of the longer replies were edited for length.)

I would submit to you that the CWI dub is actually worse than the DiC dub. Note that I am not saying DiC's dub was good, or even tolerable. What I'm saying is that this dub went from a *sort of* watchable show (if your blood alcohol level is high enough) to a piece of crap worthy of Pearl Forrester's attentions. It is readily apparent to anyone who's seen even 5 minutes of this dub that, unlike a fine wine, Optimum Productions gets worse with age. The CWI dub suffers interminably from one major problem, one that extends its tentacles into every aspect of it. CWI simply doesn't care about this dub. And any few changes for the better are not due to a concern for the show, but sheer damn fool laziness. Let me elaborate.
Things better than DiC:
*Original music is kept in most spots. This is a huge improvement over the DiC dub...but one that required absolutely *no* effort on the part of CWI. And, some rather notable music *was* changed, nay mutilated--need I mention the laughable, cheesy English lyrics they slapped on Ai no Senshi and I Am Sailormoon?
*The translation is better. True, but in some places they made serious errors. For example, they implied that *all* the outer scouts came back from the future and not just Pluto. An even worse error was when Serena was in the car with Amara and Michelle, on the way to the Tokyo Tower. Amara called Serena Sailor Moon...way before the episode where they found out each other's identities.
*Less edits. Yes, in some places this is a good thing, like for things like "death" and such. However, any more "gritty" or "darkness" to the dub is more from the innate subject matter of SMS and not CWI. I would also submit that in a lot of places, they *should* have made edits, and they didn't. The biggest example is with the Japanese text. I know I wasn't the only amused viewer when Serena was expressing anxiety over her French skills and "eigo" was splashed all over the screen. And I certainly wasn't the only person wondering why Michelle was pulling a "Single White Female" on Michiru (taking credit for her artwork), why Darien was stealing "M. Chiba"'s notebook, or why Amara was wearing "Tenoh Haruka"'s racing uniform. The absolute worst was when Michelle was asking Amara why she gave away the goldfish she won, while Amara was still shown holding said fish. Laziness. Pure and simple.
Things equal to DiC:
*Name changes. Americanization of given names, keeping of family names, complete with rampant mispronunciation. Hotaru is the exception here, but no one seems to be able to pronounce her name correctly (herself and her father included). The villains for the most part kept their names, but DiC did the same.
*"Kewlisms". Except in the CWI dub, the kewlisms have turned from such Valleyisms as "hunkmeister" to more gritty, urban kewlisms like "what's up girlfriend" and "stop trippin' Luna". Either way, all of it's lame.
*Serious personality changes. The outer scouts are a hell of a lot meaner than the outer senshi. Amara and Michelle (aside from being deeply closeted, but I'll get to that in a minute) seem to suffer from low self-esteem which manifests itself in a *serious* superiority complex. Haruka no longer quit racing because of her mission, but because "she wasn't good enough". *pauses for a collective eye-roll* Michiru is no longer the dignified, refined lady, but is a boy crazy kewlism-spewing moron.
Things worse than DiC:
*Acting, acting, acting. Or should I say, the lack of it. Granted, no one was nominating the DiC VAs for any Emmys, but CWI's VAs make them look like seasoned thespians. Susan Ballantine's Serena sounds like the Taco Bell dog in heat, and is at her worst when she tries to imitate Terri Hawkes. If ever there was a question of drug use at Optimum Productions, it has got to be applied to them casting her as Uranus. Her voice is way too feminine, and possesses none of the sexy, cool and confident androgyny required for the part. None of the tenderness when talking to Neptune. She speaks in a dull monotone, with no emotion whatsoever. Ditto with Michelle's VA, whose voice is too deep and sounds like she's being continually drugged. Our distinguished, eons-old guardian of the gates of time was kidnapped and replaced with a 13 year old mallrat. Every last one of the existing characters' VAs got worse. The only improvement was Rini's, who actually has some sliver of acting ability and is actually appropriate for the character.
*Consistency. Okay, we all know DiC wasn't winning any awards for consistency (*that's* an understatement :P) but CWI is actually worse here. Jupiter has joined the ranks of Mercury and Mars in the "Attack Identity Crisis" club. Poor Lita has had the same attack ("Sparkling Wide Pressure") be named Sparkling Wide Pressure, Jupiter Power (?!), Jupiter Thunderbolts Smash, and any other lame thing I can't remember offhand. Oh, and the henshins...the henshins. Sailor Venus must be pretty damn special: she got her powerup a whole season before everyone else did, and transformed with "Venus Crystal Power". The outers can't decide whether they like "star power" or "planet power", so they just alternate in every episode. Uranus, Neptune, and the Death Busters (oh, the "Bureau of Bad Behavior") can't decide whether they're after the "charms", "treasures", "pure hearts with special powers", or just plain "pure hearts". As for the person who needs the "Purity Chalice" to save the world, well, this poor person has had the worst kind of identity crisis. First she was the "Chosen One". Then, she literally got three different names in three consecutive episodes: the "Ambassador of Good", the "Legendary Princess" and then, the "Sovereign". DiC was horrible in this area, with them not deciding what they wanted to call the ginzuishou, but they were never, ever even in their worst moment this bad.
*One word: cousins. Granted, this isn't an area where we can compare the two, but it's the crux of the reason why this dub sucks so badly in the minds of so many fans (self included). It isn't just because it completely mutilated the Relationship between Haruka and Michiru, but because of their sloppiness of trying to cover it up and the bad voice acting, they're actually inserting lesbian subtext where none existed in the original. Because SMS revolves around Haruka and Michiru, the cousins crap is infecting the entire show. They whack the viewers in the head continuously with "cousins", they're actually making them look *more* gay--and incestuous, to boot. How many subject lines entitled "Kissin Cousins" have *you* seen on SM message boards and the newsgroups? Although it pains me as a queer fan of the show, I do concede that the Relationship could not have survived intact. But they aren't just dubiously covering it up--they are outright ridiculing it. In the lovers contest episode, one of the worst exercises in homophobia I've seen on TV, Haruka and Michiru's reason for entering the contest is now "as a joke", and the reason they quit is now "so they can step aside for the *real* couples". CWI is not only making lesbian relationships invisible, they are outright mocking them and saying they are not as valid or meaningful as hetero ones. I think every SM fan, whether straight bi or gay, should be outraged about that.
CWI took a bad dub and made it worse.
- Celestra

I know dub-complainers everywhere will get on my case about this, but I can't really say anything bad about DiC OR Cloverway. Not that they don't have their bad points, but my first experience with Sailormoon was the dubbed version, and because of that I'm used to DiC's style of dubbing. Of course, now I know more about the entire story, and it irritates me to know how much was censored, changed, and cut out of the episodes, but the fact still remains that DiC was the company who first brought Sailormoon to America, and for that I can't complain.
Cloverway is better in their use of some of the original Japanese things, like music and attack names, but the new voice actors they have really bug me. Sailor Moon's dubbed voice has ALWAYS been rather irritating, but this new voice just grates on my nerves! I unfortunately haven't gotten to see any of the episodes with Rini yet (because I'm never home when the show is on), but if her voice is any better than it was in the DiC version, then it HAS to be good!
Anyway, that's about it! I guess I'd have to say it was a tie between DiC and Cloverway...I'd rather have DiC's voice actors, but Cloverway is doing at least a little better at keeping the episodes in their original form!
And by the way...I read the comment made by Xazy (I believe that was the nickname), and I just wanted to say that "moon face," from what I know, has nothing to do with the fact that Usagi is Sailor Moon. Usually, that expression is used for someone who is VERY daydreamy and has their head in the clouds, and I think you can agree with me when I say that Usagi is definitely that! I just wanted to mention that, though...you might've already known, but reading Xazy's response just gave me the need to clarify!
- Amber

If there wasn't one thing I was looking more forward to, it was the Dub of SMS. So I have watched every episode except 2 (I was out-of-state). And my opinions? Some things were done better in the DiC dub then in the cloverway dub, and some things were done in the cloverway dub better than the DiC dub.
So which do I like better? Well, let's divide it up into segments, shall we? I'll be testing sound; names; unnecessary changes, cuts, and flubs; and necessary changes and cuts and how they were handled.
Let's start with the sound. The Voices were horrid (Serena's, to be exact) and the music was horrid (I still remember power of love... Ugh). At least With Cloverway, they kept the music. BUT! The voices are horrible (Again, Serena's is enough to drive anyone up the wall), much worse than than DiC. However, I think Cloverway did a better Job with the sounds, leaving all the original music. Cloverway 1, DiC 0.
Next, name changes. The DiC names were OK. Amy, Raye, and Mina were the best things they could of picked (with their names originally being Ami, Rei, and Minako), and Lita was OK. Serena and Rini were not great names, but livable. The really only horrid one was Negaverse, but Iím not getting into that, as that reason is WAAAAAAAYYYYY outplayed. The transformation names were OK, just "Make up" taken off, nothing major. However, the attack names are stupid, and more unnecessary changes. (Ex - Jupiter Thunder crash - what was wrong with Supreme Thunder?) However, Cloverway is being notorious for the names. Michelle and Hotaru everyone was pleased with, but Amarah? And Trista? Where did they come from? Name changes are usually made so the names are easier for our ears and easier to understand and remember. But how easy is Amarah? Or Trista? And what about the Bureau of Bad Behavior? And what's with all the transformation and attack names? Why do they change from episode to episode? It is very annoying. DiC wins here. Cloverway 1, DiC 1.
Unnecessary changes? I'm not going to go too far into this, but I will scratch the surface. Both companies have made MANY unnecessary changes. DiC did lots of small changes and cuts that weren't so bad. However, larger cuts and changes were just plain dumb. (Example of a VERY dumb cut and change - Day of destiny. Two beautiful episodes combined into one crappy one.) Flubs? Too many to count (Ex - When Artemis is telling the girls the messages from central control. What? Isn't Artemis Central Control?) Cloverway so far hasn't made any serious mistakes, but sooner or later, they will. Flubs? Again, too many to count (Ex - Again, another Jun Jun example, Venus uses Venus Crystal Power to transform.) I am more impressed with Cloverway's dubbing job on unnecessary cuts than DiC's. Cloverway 2, DiC 1.
Necessary Cuts - Oh god, Iím going to get bashed here. In SM and SMR, there is not very much material that could get sailor moon kicked off the air. So DiC really didn't have a hard time in this category. The only thing I can think of is all the slapping and the language. So let's go to cloverway. OK, Iíll address the thing that comes to mid first - Cousins? Amarah and Michelle COUSINS? Argh. Well, this WAS going to happen. I could think of much worse things they could've been (sisters), but I could think of better things they could've been (good friends) If they were good friends, they might not have to cut out all the stuff they did concerning their relationship (Ex, them holding hands, touching each other, etc. etc.). But I suppose cousins are OK. Next, the names. They couldn't keep Messiah, or Holy Grail. I kind of like purity chalice (even though ambassador of good is horrid). So, in my opinion, since both sides did an OK job changing what they had to, I give them each a point. Cloverway 3, DiC 2.
So I guess I like Cloverway better. Or do I? Oh don't get me wrong, there are many more things I could get into here. But it's not worth any more of my time, and none more of you readers. That really is a stupid thing to say, "At least it wasn't as bad as what DiC did". So why do we say it?
DiC had no compitition for Sailor Moon, so it was always compared to the original. Of course the original will be better than the dub! So it got the reputation it was horrible, many people saying that that had never even seen the original. So when the cloverway eps come along, they had something to compare the eps to, the DiC dub. Except everyone hates the DiC dub. So Of course everyone is going to say the Cloverway dub is much better. But why? They have no idea.
The truth is, and Iíve actually been banned for saying this from chat rooms before, is the fact I LIKE BOTH DUBS! I like them both! In fact, I have a hard time sleeping at night if I miss even a second of Sailor Moon! Neither was worse than the other was. They were both equally as bad. But just because something is bad doesn't mean I hate it.
So there is the answer to your question. Which do I like better? Neither. Even though above, I've proven that I like Cloverway better, in reality, neither is better.
- Jeff

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  • Last updated: July 19th, 2000
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